Answer: It really depends on your model type. Hello Frank, one of the disadvantages of recirculating pumps is that you have to wait for cold water a bit. Solutions like- unplugging it, using a timer and using wifi sockets are convenient. Make sure there are no loose connections. Think hot water loops returning to your boiler to get reheated (to stay hot) Think LOOPS!! When the heat exchanger starts to crack, it creates a gap that can escape toxic exhaust gasses. Is this a common drawback with the under-sink crossover valve? He said he tied in both in the master bath and the kitchen but it seems if that were the case at a minimum they would have hot water quickly. We always take the pros vs. cons approach because nothing is perfect. Does anyone know the logic behind how Navien controls their internal recirculation pump when it is circulating with an external loop? Then replace the heater cover and turn the gas or power back on. Only 13 left in stock - order soon. A hot water recirculation pump can be sized for a given system using the following formulas: Water flow qc = /T x 4200 That installation is incorrect. Obviously, you might be wondering: If the recirculation pump loop is running continuously, youre probably expanding too much electricity just to get hot water faster. Navien NPE-240 A Recirculation Linewww.amazon.com/shop/miheatingguyMilwaukee 2131-20 M18 ROCKET Dual Power Tower Lighthttps://amzn.to/3pe2hYHMilwaukee M12 Surge Hydraulic Driver Kit #2551-22https://amzn.to/3n5offbMakita E-01563 Impact XPS 3 Pc. However, some gas needs to be used to heat water for the pump to circulate; the gas usage for this is pretty much insignificant relative to how much gas we use when powering the instant hot water heater. Tankless Water Heater Wire Size Calculator: What Gauge Wire (AWG)? Ask an Expert Home Improvement Questions HVAC Questions Navien NPE-240s with external recirculating pump. Crazy coincidence that I ran into your post because I've been researching the same issue. Those are quite significant savings. If enabled you would find that your hot water is ready to go almost anytime you need it, without a long wait. Hi Howy, well, the circulating pumps are usually powered by electricity, so they dont use gas. However, I have envious of those who have the NPE with the hot button and wifi link. I have a tankless water heater with an external recirculating pump at the heater and a crossover valve under the kitchen sink. Navien tankless whole house HWH. This setup is very similar to the one I have with my 40 gallon tank setup with recirc/return line by using an X10 home automation module to program the remote to turn the pump on for 4 minutes and automatically turn off whenever someone presses it before taking a shower. Advantages and disadvantages of hot water circulation pumps. Does It Save Money? Ensure the main gas supply valve is open. To calculate the size of the heater, you will need to add up the amount of water required at a particular time. You can crack open the manual for your tankless heater and check if it comes with that option. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. = heat loss from the circulation system [kW] Is this noise normal coming from my Navien tankless heater? If the problem persists after reset, replace the APS as soon as possible. Do we keep the flames on after cooking? We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. This extra pipe is installed parallel to conventional piping. The pump saves this cold water and recirculates it in the hot water. Remove the inlet filter and wash it under the running water with the help of a brush. For example, an open or shorted sensor causes this issue. toby sutton wife of frank sutton how to turn on navien recirculation pump Then descale a flush the heater following the steps listed below. $44.90. Without the need for extra piping, this type of hot water circulation pump system also comes at a much lower cost. Foreign materials like small pebbles may get into the recirculation pump. if your water heater has 5 connections ( CW in; HW out; Recirc in; condensate ; gas) then the recirculation is coming backing to the water heater. To change the water temperature; Check this too: Richmond Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide. First, you need to consider Things to consider when sizing the busiest usage period or peak time. Note: Remember to turn off power to the heater before replacing the gasket. (Per Hour, Month, Year), How Much Does A Tankless Water Heater Cost? It usually occurs due to an open or shorted sensor. Manage Settings You can change the cold water inlet thermistor if necessary. Parts that will actually be used depend on what kind of hot water recirculation pump you have. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads. Full Recirculation Pump System - Going this route adds additional piping to your system, allowing for a "hot water loop" to be created, ensuring the water doesn't end up sitting and going cold in your pipes and instead is recirculated, ready for the next time you turn on the tap. Once again, there are a few different things it could be. $257.16. This serves two functions: This is also true for tankless water heaters. Then check to see if the plumbing lines and the heaters water lines are clogged. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. I agree the user manuals are very helpful. The number of bathrooms, tubs, dishwashers, and washers. Continue with Recommended Cookies. The short answer is no, your water will still be pure. You dont have to install an additional pipe. You can adjust the temperature while the display is flashing. And. Turning off your water recirculating pump reduces damage. The leading causes of the intermittent flame; You can fix these issues by maintaining and cleaning the heater. Change the thermistor if needed. Second, you can use a flex connector to isolate the pump. Confirm the thermistor and wiring is in good condition. Empties the water pipes so the next time youll need hot water fast, it will meet less resistance in the piping and it will arrive at the faucet in a matter of seconds. Is there a way to tell if the cold pipe is circulatory/return line or cold water from the mains? And thats a wrap! Costs associated with hot water circulation pumps (parts + installation + DIY savings). However, whenever I turn on the cold water at the kitchen sink the tankless unit starts to run (heat water) even though I dont want heated water. I would appreciate any help and insight you can offer. I am having issues with it ever since: water to certain places in my house seems to just stay warm (kitchen sink and master bathroom) unless I fully open the faucet all the way on hotand then still I have to wait a minute plus for the water to heat up. Is this correct for the function of the system? This type of hot water recirculation system is most appropriate for new homes; homes that are in the 3rd or 4th part of the building process. For example, if you have a person showering and another individual shaving. We recommend to use caution and seek the advice of qualified professionals. Working well so far. If any of them are loose or disconnected, your circulator pump won't work. When you are installing water system stuff, a lot of things can cause low pressure. If youre using this pump and cant fix it yourself, you can call a professional mechanic to fix it. Thats kind of why the water heater still has to do some work (it turns on); its not a lot of heating but some heating is usually required. Below, I will break down everything to stop the buzzing noise. If you have any questions about these pumps, how they work, or some calculations, you can give us the specifics in the comments below and well try to help you out. The process to take apart the fitting which holds the flow sensor to "blow" it out clean is arduous, requiring drainage of the system etc., and has not solved the problem. The hot water recirculation pump works by: The very phrase recirculating comes from this pump returning the unused hot water back into the tank. A family of 4 with normal water usage can expect to save $50-$75 a year. Some pumps, in order to avoid needing a dedicated return path, will recirculate the water via the cold water supply, so getting some hot water from the cold supply would be normal in this case. 2. It will make your water recirculating pump much smarter. It means that there is an issue with the air pressure sensor. Also, check if the electrical cord is grounded correctly or not. Then re-insert the filter and screw it back in place. It could be open or shorted. Others run on a timer. The recirculation timer is set to operate ever 15 minutes, even though we are often not at the property. Correcting Navien Tankless Hot Water Heater Installation, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup, Tankless water heater - not consistent hot water output, Plumbing Manifold Use With a Tankless Hot Water Heater, No hot water if hot water recirculator pump is shut off, warm water only when we replaced the hot water heater with a tankless heater. Solutions like- unplugging it, using a timer and using wifi sockets are convenient. But, yes, I understand why it seems feasible for the sediment to eventually enter the water flow and cause the change in taste of water. Grundfos water recirculation pump may troubleshoot sometimes. I have the newest version pcb since I just bought the tankless. Besides, the E782 indicates that there is something wrong with the main panel communication. To remedy the issue, consider increasing the gas supply to the heater. The buffer tank eliminates the "cold water sandwich" effect and issues of minimum flow rates commonly found in other tankless water heaters. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. If this does not work, hire a professional to repair or replace any damaged parts. You can turn it off during work hours, over the night, when you go on vacations, and so on. If we take that the average price of water is $0.18/gallon (according to Statistas 2019 study), heres how much you can save on water with a recirculation pump: Water Savings = 2,920 gallons/year * $0.18/gallon = $525.60/year. Once the display stops flashing, the temperature setting is stored. Reassemble the heater and turn on the hot and cold water valves. Carbon monoxide (CO) is a tasteless, colorless, odorless, and highly poisonous gas which can be deadly to humans in high concentrations. We turn it off because it will waste gas. It can also damage your main water heater and can create recirculation problems. That is a premium service however. where does the recirc line tie come off the hot lines? Question: Can a recirculating pump last for 10-15 years?Answer: If you use it properly, it should last at least 10-15 years. The only place that quickly gets hot (and really hot) is the guest bath which happens to be right next to the water heater. This happens when you have a huge heater and lower gas output. This may temporarily help to remedy the issue. However, if you want hot water fast, these on-demand heaters are not ideal. We have one faucet in the kitchen that has instant scalding hot water the second you turn it on . This number indicates that the water pressure is high. Theoretically Correct vs Practical Notation. Thanks! It means the circulation pump is not working correctly. Continue reading below Our Video of the Day 1. You are using an out of date browser. "The recirculating pump costs about the same as operating a 25-watt light bulb," says Umberto Griccino, a commercial plumber and HouseGrail consultant. Another suggestion I can give you is to maintain and service your Navien water heater according to the manual. I'm fairly handy with DIY plumbing, but not and expert and I know when I am out of my league. In his spare time, Oscar loves tinkering with electronics. they have an accessory called the HotButton (PZZZ-00046). When he is not busy trying not to electrocute himself, you can find him in the garden tending to his vegetables and chickens. And the heater has been set to recirculation mode. Similarly, if the return from the loops is mixing with the boiler loop system and cooling off the water before it gets sent to the recirculation pump, you will face this problem. In compliance with California's . Turning off the water recirculating pump isnt a big deal. To remedy this issue, turn off the heater for some time and restart it. Check if there is any gas leakage before turning it on after a couple of days. We can go from there with up to 3 hours of dedicated live coaching on the telephone if needed. The cost of a separate recirculation pump would fall in the range of $200 and $500, depending on the size required. The function of a recirculating pump is to ensure that hot water is always available as close to the consumption point as possible, in order to reduce water waste and to increase comfort. Flush the vinegar out of your water heaters. If you are looking for a tankless water heater that can provide you with hot water 24/7, Navien water heater is the way to go. Create an account to follow your favorite communities and start taking part in conversations. On-Demand Mode. You can isolate the pump from the vibration in two ways. Way too many variables to even begin to diagnose online IMO. For example, if you get the tees backward, the recirculation pump will not function properly. This propels the water to your faucet or shower much quicker. Cookie Notice The plumber said that he tied in both in the master bathroom and the kitchen but Ill crawl under the house to validate this. It shows that the water adjustment valve is not operating properly. Recirculation valve for use with NPE-A series tankless water heaters Designed for recirculation of domestic hot water in applications where a dedicated return line is not available. Turns out, make sure you isolate the recirculation pump from the vibration. if you do have an external recirc line BUT it was installed when the Navien , then see if you can find where the recirc line connects to the hot water line - maybe it's serving a portion of your fixtures and the other fixtures are not benefiting from the recirculation. It is a visible sign that your devices cold water inlet two thermistor is having some issues. Thats why most homeowners prefer installing the recirculation pump without the extra pipe. They are not without upfront costs or disadvantages. Therefore, the total peak demand of hot water needed is the ideal size of the heater you should get. Check this too: Electric RV Water Heater How to & Troubleshooting Guide. So, there is such a thing. It does save you water but it also costs you a bit of electricity. Thats 2,920 gallons of water per year wasted. Asking for help, clarification, or responding to other answers. On top of that, the recirculating pumps also return the cold water in the pipes back to the heater. I connected the Hot Button control board to the main PCB per the instructions. The second method seems to suggest the cold water at sinks will most likely have been run through the hot water tank. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? qc = the circulating water flow [m3/s] This requires the installation of an additional water pipe. Press the + (Up) or (Down) buttons until the desired temperature appears on display. Circulation pumps can wreck havoc on your lines if you run them constantly due to friction at bends causing pinhole leaks. Why isn't my Navien tankless water heater performing as it should? Privacy Policy. We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. If you fail to stop the noise after trying all the steps I mentioned, I bet there is a complex problem with the unit. 2 Types Of Hot Water Recirculation Pumps Used In Homes, Type 2: Recirculating Home Pump Comfort System, Advantages And Disadvantages Of Hot Water Recirculation Pumps, How Much Do Hot Water Circulation Pumps Cost + Installation Cost + Running Cost? Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. This unit doesnt have dip switches as far as I undersrand. Ensure you mount the pump securely. Open the hot and cold service ports and turn the pump on. If you add a powerful hot water circulation pump at the heater (not under the sink), the hot water will reach the faucet much faster. DC Wire Gauge Calculator: What Gauge Wire (12V, 24V, 48V)? Where does the circulation return line tie in, and where is this in relation to the Naviien unit, other fixtures, and appliances in the home? It is affordable and can easily fix your problem. Here are four problems with these pump systems that you should be aware of. You can return the item for any reason in new and unused condition: no shipping charges ; Get it as soon as Wednesday, Mar 1. (State-By-State Chart), How To Convert Therms To kWh? These are the kinds of issues that can occur if you aren't aware of the automatic appliances that are connected to your system (and don't shut them off along with the water). There are several ways to do it. Then, you can change the tank thermistor if needed. If your system displays this code, you need to confirm the water pressure is within good ranges. Step 1 Remove the plug from the socket on the end of the wire that connects to your circulator pump. Your question, can I turn off my hot water pump? has been answered. Can you turn it off in a tankless that has it built in? To install a full recirculating pump system, you need to consult with a plumber because you will need an extra pipe. Recirculation Settings by pressing down the OK button. What parts does a home water recirculation pump include, and where to install it. Weve tried to include every concern you might have regarding turning off the water recirculating pump. On the other hand, if you find no foreign stuff, ensure you purge the air out of the system. Hopefully its clear which is which when Im down there. Hi Patrick, thats a good insight. That means that the cold water is not actually cold; it will usually be slightly warm (at room temperature). However, the plumber branched this off into the circulation water inlet. In existing homes, adding an additional pipe for a full recirculating pump system is often too expensive; its just dont worth it, according to HVAC specialists. One option is to put a relay/contactor between the Navien and the internal pump, so that that pump can only get power when the house is occupied. Now, we have to check if these costs are balanced out by the water savings. Then what are we waiting for? There are special tankless water heater recirculation pumps for Navien, Rinnai, and Rheem units; we will cover them all. Now you have your socket, turn it off/on whenever you want! Having a tankless water heater is an energy-efficient way of getting hot water. We want to reduce waste in using water given our well situation. As an Amazon Associate we earn from qualifying purchases. (1000-3000+ Sq Ft Homes), Thermostat Says Heat On But No Heat? Press either the Up and the Down button to switch between any of these recirculation settings: It is located on the lowest corner opposite the on and off button. Navien Recirculation Pump Noise [4 Easy Solutions], 02. I've bled the system top and bottom and even removed the return line then switched to internal pump yet it still makes this noise. Where did you find that info? You will see in the photo that the cold water valve shuts off water into the domestic water inlet but doesn't have a shut off into the circulation water inlet. However, whenever I turn on the cold water at the kitchen sink for a few seconds the tankless unit starts to run (heat water) even though I dont want heated water. Is there a proper earth ground point in this switch box? Make sure the exhaust pipe is not obstructed. How? From the valve, try to loosen up the cap to remove air from the system. There are no error codes showing. Here are some simple instructions on how to turn on your Navien tankless water heater. Solution: Ensure all return and supply lines are open and check the 2-way valve's direction. Here we will cover all the important parts of hot water recirculations pumps, including: You will get an overall look at how you can use increased water pressure by a circulation pump for almost instantaneous hot water access. An open or short thermistor can be the root cause of this problem. Thats all for today. So, ensure you purge the air out of the recirculation pump to operate the unit quietly. https://www.ebay.com/itm/12V-DC-MOMONTROL-RM11-/350575987090?hash=item519ff50992, Navien NPE-240A2 External circulation question, Navien NPE-240A and HotButton - DIP switches and parameters, Flushing Navien 240A set up for external bypass, Navien NPE External Recirculation Confusion. Worst case is your plumber might have to call since they require them to maintain it. Plug n play (after removing front panel to access the plug). The recirculation pump is fixed on the water heater. A place for plumbing advice and help. Lets outline them here: To determine if installing a hot water recirculation pump makes sense for your situation, we have to check the pros and cons. Most of information is available in the install manual but some of it requires a phone call to Navien support. The 3/4-inch pipe thread connectors are used to connect the pump to your existing pipes. Consider yourself lucky if this installation hasn't damaged your circulating pump inside the unit. Question: How is a water recirculating pump eco-friendly?Answer: The basic reason is, water recirculating pumps save water. Locate the power button and press it to turn on the heater. You also have to flush the heat exchanger. What video game is Charlie playing in Poker Face S01E07? Check the thermistors condition along with pump wiring connectors. Go along the steps described below to set the recirculation settings. Check to see if the water valves are open. You can contact a plumber if necessary. You just have to set the timer as you use it. The exhaust thermostat is malfunctioning. Turn off the device for half an hour and confirm everything is working correctly. Its really an easy task to do. It is brand new in the original Navien factory packaging and is guaranteed to fit and function properly. Question: How much does it cost to buy a water recirculating pump? We trusted him and thought everything was just fine as we were getting hot water throughout the house. The E760 informs you that its time to flush your heater. The upfront cost is a major deterrent when deciding if it makes sense to install a circulation pump or not. How is an ETF fee calculated in a trade that ends in less than a year? Heres the deal on how to get the hot water faster from a water heater: When we turn on any faucet, the hot water needs to travel from the hot water heater to the faucet. Now, when installed, the recirculating pump makes it seem that the hot water starts flowing right away like magic. Both of those spots are problematic though. It looks like you're using an ad blocker. First, place a " thick rubber between the pump and anything it will be mounted on. This may require chasing the supply lines. The recirculation pump saves on water bills by reducing the time to get hot water. Also, did you wire the PB from the Hot Button kit or only use the remote? After using this amount of time, hardware gets old and starts to malfunction. Overusing your recirculating pump also increases your electricity bill. Allow it to dry and then fix it back. How can this new ban on drag possibly be considered constitutional? Eventually, they pay for themselves by reducing the water bills. I kind of feel like he is trying to get away with something that wasnt installed properly but hopefully I am wrong. Remove the filter from the plastic assembly and clean it with a toothbrush, and clean running water. This depends on how long you leave it on and how often you use it. The water heater will retain your settings during a power outage. Here is the final install. Most importantly, the installer fails to mount the pump on the vibration isolators. Remove the front cover of the water heater. Where is the 2 internal drain valve in Navien 240a tankless water heater (damaged needs replacement), Shower gradually cools, gets hotter when sink is on. It means there is some issue with a water pressure sensor. Once the tank is thoroughly drained, clean the base of the heater. When we dont have to use it, why keep it on? Now, you have to know the hows for reducing damage. However, this is only a temporary fix. Remove the screw that secures the air intake filter and then remove the filter. How Much Does 500 Watts Cost Per Hour? Well, If you overuse your pump, it will start malfunctioning. It sounds awful and not like any other recirculating pump I've ever heard. We have to keep the valve on and slowly hot water comes out. Allow it to dry for some time before fixing it again.
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